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Variant Collecting & Discussion Thread
by cantina_patron Wed Jun 21, 2017 4:45 pm
Introduction
Many collectors are happy to build a complete loose collection of the 105 characters & creatures released during the original toy production run from 1978 through to 1985. However, once the collecting bug has set in and a basic set has been built, some collectors maintain their interest by seeking out different versions / variants of each character.
So what is variant collecting?
In broad terms it can be divided into:
'Major' variants - involving significant changes in sculpt, materials used & paint application.
Well known examples include:
Han Solo (small & large head)
Jawa (vinyl or cloth cape)
Luke Jedi (head moulded in flesh colour plastic with painted hair or head moulded in hair colour plastic with painted face)
'Minor' variants - e.g. small mould differences, differences in paint application and or colour used. It should be noted that figures produced by a single factory may have minor batch to batch variations in paint colour.
In recent years a lot of collectors have also been collecting COO (country of origin) stamp variants e.g. Hong Kong, Made In Hong Kong, China, Macau, Taiwan, Made In Taiwan, Japan, blank raised bar, no COO and COO scar.
For more information on COOs please follow this link to Tantive XI's guide:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Any help filling in gaps would be appreciated!
When did variant collecting take off?
Personally, like many collectors I started looking for 'major' variants such as Obi-Wan with white and grey hair in the early 90s when I got back into collecting while completing my childhood collection. I am under the impression that serious loose variant collecting has increasingly grown over the last 10 years due to international collectors sharing knowledge and trading via the internet.
How has variant research benefited the vintage Star Wars community?
The research that has gone into variant collecting has helped confirm what factories produced the figures (in part or full), what cardbacks they appeared on & in which countries they were available. e.g. the infamous burgundy coat Bib Fortuna is exclusive to the former Lili Ledy factory in Mexico and was only available at retail in Mexico. The research that has been conducted & published by notable collectors on forums, Facebook & their own websites has been hugely valuable to the collecting community & has driven the current interest in variant collecting. However there are still gaps in our knowledge.
What are some of the rarest variants?
Some of the rarest & most desirable production variants include:
Kenner (US) Luke, Vader & Ben figures with double telescoping (DT) lightsabers;
Meccano (France) Boba Fett, Luke Farmboy & Death Star Droid;
Lili Ledy (Mexico), Burgundy coat Bib Fortuna, removable rocket Boba Fett & Jawa removable hood;
Poch/PBP (Spain) Jawa, 'toxic' green limbed Bossk and 4-LOM;
Toltoys (Australia) unique Vinyl caped Jawa.
Figures produced by Top Toys (Argentina) and Glasslite (Brazil) are also highly desirable to many collectors.
Great care should be taken when purchasing high end variants as there are many fakes on the market, some are obvious but others can only be spotted by the trained eye. It is strongly recommended to do your research, ask questions, request detailed photos and to buy from reputable sources.
Why are some variants overrated?
Some of the most desirable and expensive variants aren't actually that rare, but due to their desirability they command a premium on the secondary market. Prime examples include: the vinyl caped Jawa, blue Snaggletooth & Yak Face.
The blue Snaggletooth is particularly desired by European collectors as it was a US exclusive through the Sears Cantina Adventure set. Conversely Yak Face was relatively abundant in Europe, but not released in the US, so US collectors regard this figure in the same way that European collectors regard blue Snaggletooth.
Prior to the rise of eBay, forums and Facebook, these figures were considered rare outside of their country of origin. Today these three figures can be found available for sale online virtually any day of the week, whereas other variants such as some of the confirmed early Poch/PBP (still being researched) and Meccano figures may only be seen very occasionally.
Who are the most well-known variant collectors?
Some of the notable variant collectors who are well known and respected authorities in the collecting community include:
Wolff (Aslan Adam on Facebook);
Kenneth (Kenneth_B on the forums);
Marco (Dr Dengar on the forums)
Sergio (slolance4ever on the forums); and
Henrik (HWR on the forums).
These are just a few of the most well-known, there are many more.
As you can see from the above list, a lot of notable variant collectors are based in Europe. One explanation for this may be due to the fact that more variants were available here at retail. For example, in the UK we had figures packaged on Palitoy cards, US Kenner cards and Trilogo cards. The figures packaged on these cards were manufactured in the various Asian factories as well as Spain during the latter period of production.
Factory Errors and Discolouration
Factory errors and discoloured figures are often incorrectly identified as a variant, especially by individuals who are new to the hobby, or don't take the time to do their research. A true variant is a figure whose appearance is that intended by the manufacturer. Therefore there are numerous confirmed examples for the same character, including MOC.
Factory errors come in many forms. Although they should not have made it through quality control they are pretty abundant. Common examples include:
Short shots / pours where the copyright info may appear to be very faint or completely absent. These can be mistaken for, or passed off by unscrupulous dealers, as pre-production items. The affected leg will usually have less definition of the other details and be shorter :
Odd limbs e.g. two right arms or two left legs :
Paint errors e.g. missing paint application, or overspray. As the figures are painted before assembly, missing paint usually only includes one colour and affects one part of the body :
Non sonic welded figures. Occasionally figures can be found that are non sonic welded (the process used to 'glue' the body together and hold the limbs in place). These figures have a torso which can be pulled apart allowing the component parts to be separated;
Please note that genuine non sonic welded figures have no signs of melting / damage to the internal seams or the pin and receiving hole of the torso. Unfortunately, some people try to pass off seperated, poorly sonic welded figures as un sonic welded, so again care needs to be taken when purchasing these factory errors.
Example of a 'forced apart' sonic welded figure. Note the damage described above.
More detailed info can be read here:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Discolouration / degradation is the result of chemical changes in the plastic or paint e.g. the breakdown of pigments. Discolouration / degradation is most frequently caused by environmental factors such as ultraviolet light, humidity, gases & temperature. Many people mistakingly identify discoloured / degraded figures as a variant & can take some convincing of the truth. A classic example of this is the 'green' limbed Chewbacca. While the discolouration can look very uniform there are enough documented examples which are in the process of changing to demonstrate that they are not true variants, as seen here.
White plastics can turn pale yellow through to orange / brown. There is a growing trend among some collectors & dealers to chemically bleach these figures in order to increase their aesthetic appeal / value. However, it is not known what harmful long term effects this practice will have on the stability of the plastics. It has also been documented that this treatment only provides a 'short term' fix as some of the bleached figures have started to turn yellow again.
Paints can also degrade e.g. Pink can fade to cream or white due to the break down of the red pigments.
More information on discolouration / degradation can be found here: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Unfortunately there appears to be a divide between MOC collectors & loose variant collectors. If we can actively encourage more MOC collectors to identify what mould families their figures belong to & confirm the cardback & factory code (where applicable), it will be possible to establish with even more clarity when each variant was produced, its distribution and even where it was manufactured.
Collecting variants can be both fun & frustrating, but the basic full collection of 105 loose figures can be increased to several hundred. Let the chase begin!
Photo Credits: The Tantive XI team & Matthieu Barthelemy
ANNEX: Best internet resources
Here are some links to some of the best internet sources for researching variants:
Tantive XI: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Rebel Scum: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
The Imperial Gunnery Forum: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Star Wars Forum UK: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
There is also a lot of great information on the Facebook groups, but specific discussions can be hard to find. Forums are much easier to search.
Many collectors are happy to build a complete loose collection of the 105 characters & creatures released during the original toy production run from 1978 through to 1985. However, once the collecting bug has set in and a basic set has been built, some collectors maintain their interest by seeking out different versions / variants of each character.
So what is variant collecting?
In broad terms it can be divided into:
'Major' variants - involving significant changes in sculpt, materials used & paint application.
Well known examples include:
Han Solo (small & large head)
[600][You must be registered and logged in to see this image.][/600]
Jawa (vinyl or cloth cape)
[600][You must be registered and logged in to see this image.][/600]
Luke Jedi (head moulded in flesh colour plastic with painted hair or head moulded in hair colour plastic with painted face)
[600][You must be registered and logged in to see this image.][/600]
'Minor' variants - e.g. small mould differences, differences in paint application and or colour used. It should be noted that figures produced by a single factory may have minor batch to batch variations in paint colour.
In recent years a lot of collectors have also been collecting COO (country of origin) stamp variants e.g. Hong Kong, Made In Hong Kong, China, Macau, Taiwan, Made In Taiwan, Japan, blank raised bar, no COO and COO scar.
For more information on COOs please follow this link to Tantive XI's guide:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Any help filling in gaps would be appreciated!
When did variant collecting take off?
Personally, like many collectors I started looking for 'major' variants such as Obi-Wan with white and grey hair in the early 90s when I got back into collecting while completing my childhood collection. I am under the impression that serious loose variant collecting has increasingly grown over the last 10 years due to international collectors sharing knowledge and trading via the internet.
How has variant research benefited the vintage Star Wars community?
The research that has gone into variant collecting has helped confirm what factories produced the figures (in part or full), what cardbacks they appeared on & in which countries they were available. e.g. the infamous burgundy coat Bib Fortuna is exclusive to the former Lili Ledy factory in Mexico and was only available at retail in Mexico. The research that has been conducted & published by notable collectors on forums, Facebook & their own websites has been hugely valuable to the collecting community & has driven the current interest in variant collecting. However there are still gaps in our knowledge.
What are some of the rarest variants?
Some of the rarest & most desirable production variants include:
Kenner (US) Luke, Vader & Ben figures with double telescoping (DT) lightsabers;
[400][You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
[/400]
[/400]
Meccano (France) Boba Fett, Luke Farmboy & Death Star Droid;
[600][You must be registered and logged in to see this image.][/600]
Lili Ledy (Mexico), Burgundy coat Bib Fortuna, removable rocket Boba Fett & Jawa removable hood;
[400][You must be registered and logged in to see this image.][/400]
Poch/PBP (Spain) Jawa, 'toxic' green limbed Bossk and 4-LOM;
[300][You must be registered and logged in to see this image.][/300]
Toltoys (Australia) unique Vinyl caped Jawa.
Figures produced by Top Toys (Argentina) and Glasslite (Brazil) are also highly desirable to many collectors.
Great care should be taken when purchasing high end variants as there are many fakes on the market, some are obvious but others can only be spotted by the trained eye. It is strongly recommended to do your research, ask questions, request detailed photos and to buy from reputable sources.
Why are some variants overrated?
Some of the most desirable and expensive variants aren't actually that rare, but due to their desirability they command a premium on the secondary market. Prime examples include: the vinyl caped Jawa, blue Snaggletooth & Yak Face.
The blue Snaggletooth is particularly desired by European collectors as it was a US exclusive through the Sears Cantina Adventure set. Conversely Yak Face was relatively abundant in Europe, but not released in the US, so US collectors regard this figure in the same way that European collectors regard blue Snaggletooth.
[400][You must be registered and logged in to see this image.][/400]
Prior to the rise of eBay, forums and Facebook, these figures were considered rare outside of their country of origin. Today these three figures can be found available for sale online virtually any day of the week, whereas other variants such as some of the confirmed early Poch/PBP (still being researched) and Meccano figures may only be seen very occasionally.
Who are the most well-known variant collectors?
Some of the notable variant collectors who are well known and respected authorities in the collecting community include:
Wolff (Aslan Adam on Facebook);
Kenneth (Kenneth_B on the forums);
Marco (Dr Dengar on the forums)
Sergio (slolance4ever on the forums); and
Henrik (HWR on the forums).
These are just a few of the most well-known, there are many more.
As you can see from the above list, a lot of notable variant collectors are based in Europe. One explanation for this may be due to the fact that more variants were available here at retail. For example, in the UK we had figures packaged on Palitoy cards, US Kenner cards and Trilogo cards. The figures packaged on these cards were manufactured in the various Asian factories as well as Spain during the latter period of production.
Factory Errors and Discolouration
Factory errors and discoloured figures are often incorrectly identified as a variant, especially by individuals who are new to the hobby, or don't take the time to do their research. A true variant is a figure whose appearance is that intended by the manufacturer. Therefore there are numerous confirmed examples for the same character, including MOC.
Factory errors come in many forms. Although they should not have made it through quality control they are pretty abundant. Common examples include:
Short shots / pours where the copyright info may appear to be very faint or completely absent. These can be mistaken for, or passed off by unscrupulous dealers, as pre-production items. The affected leg will usually have less definition of the other details and be shorter :
[600][You must be registered and logged in to see this image.][/600]
Odd limbs e.g. two right arms or two left legs :
[600][You must be registered and logged in to see this image.][/600]
Paint errors e.g. missing paint application, or overspray. As the figures are painted before assembly, missing paint usually only includes one colour and affects one part of the body :
[300][You must be registered and logged in to see this image.][/300]
Non sonic welded figures. Occasionally figures can be found that are non sonic welded (the process used to 'glue' the body together and hold the limbs in place). These figures have a torso which can be pulled apart allowing the component parts to be separated;
[200][You must be registered and logged in to see this image.][/200]
Please note that genuine non sonic welded figures have no signs of melting / damage to the internal seams or the pin and receiving hole of the torso. Unfortunately, some people try to pass off seperated, poorly sonic welded figures as un sonic welded, so again care needs to be taken when purchasing these factory errors.
Example of a 'forced apart' sonic welded figure. Note the damage described above.
[600][You must be registered and logged in to see this image.][/600]
More detailed info can be read here:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Discolouration / degradation is the result of chemical changes in the plastic or paint e.g. the breakdown of pigments. Discolouration / degradation is most frequently caused by environmental factors such as ultraviolet light, humidity, gases & temperature. Many people mistakingly identify discoloured / degraded figures as a variant & can take some convincing of the truth. A classic example of this is the 'green' limbed Chewbacca. While the discolouration can look very uniform there are enough documented examples which are in the process of changing to demonstrate that they are not true variants, as seen here.
[600][You must be registered and logged in to see this image.][/600]
White plastics can turn pale yellow through to orange / brown. There is a growing trend among some collectors & dealers to chemically bleach these figures in order to increase their aesthetic appeal / value. However, it is not known what harmful long term effects this practice will have on the stability of the plastics. It has also been documented that this treatment only provides a 'short term' fix as some of the bleached figures have started to turn yellow again.
Paints can also degrade e.g. Pink can fade to cream or white due to the break down of the red pigments.
[600][You must be registered and logged in to see this image.][/600]
More information on discolouration / degradation can be found here: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Unfortunately there appears to be a divide between MOC collectors & loose variant collectors. If we can actively encourage more MOC collectors to identify what mould families their figures belong to & confirm the cardback & factory code (where applicable), it will be possible to establish with even more clarity when each variant was produced, its distribution and even where it was manufactured.
Collecting variants can be both fun & frustrating, but the basic full collection of 105 loose figures can be increased to several hundred. Let the chase begin!
Photo Credits: The Tantive XI team & Matthieu Barthelemy
ANNEX: Best internet resources
Here are some links to some of the best internet sources for researching variants:
Tantive XI: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Rebel Scum: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
The Imperial Gunnery Forum: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Star Wars Forum UK: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
There is also a lot of great information on the Facebook groups, but specific discussions can be hard to find. Forums are much easier to search.
Last edited by cantina_patron on Fri Jun 23, 2017 2:58 pm; edited 1 time in total
cantina_patron- Bespin Busho
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Re: Variant Collecting & Discussion Thread
by Commander Clint Wed Jun 21, 2017 6:31 pm
Great article Steve. Hopefully this will be a benefit to the new collectors. 
Commander Clint- Jedi Shogun Spirit
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Re: Variant Collecting & Discussion Thread
by hellhippie Thu Jun 22, 2017 5:00 pm
amazing read Steve , I agree with Clint it will help out new collectors 100% ,
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Re: Variant Collecting & Discussion Thread
by Nico Thu Jun 22, 2017 7:16 pm
A great write up Steve 
Top work mate 
Top work mate 
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Re: Variant Collecting & Discussion Thread
by cantina_patron Fri Jun 23, 2017 8:20 am
Thanks guys, and a big shout out goes to Christian for conceiving the idea and everyone who helped to supply pictures. 
cantina_patron- Bespin Busho
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Re: Variant Collecting & Discussion Thread
by ChristianC Fri Jun 23, 2017 10:24 am
Great article Steve, was so stoked to be able to pick your big variant loving brain. The final product looks fantastic and the photos are superb. I'm sure a lot of collectors will benefit from it. I learnt a lot myself!!!!
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Re: Variant Collecting & Discussion Thread
by JaviSWSpain Fri Jun 23, 2017 9:19 pm
Nice article Steve!! thanks for write this! very informative for new loose collectors!
COngrats
COngrats
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Re: Variant Collecting & Discussion Thread
by Ian_C Fri Jun 23, 2017 9:27 pm
This is a fantastic article. Excellent work Steve!
Ian
Ian
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Re: Variant Collecting & Discussion Thread
by cantina_patron Fri Jun 23, 2017 9:43 pm
Thank you very much Javi & Ian I'm really pleased that you like it.
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Re: Variant Collecting & Discussion Thread
by Kenneth_B Sun Jun 25, 2017 7:58 pm
Great article Steve, another useful tool for especially new variant collectors. 
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Re: Variant Collecting & Discussion Thread
by cantina_patron Sun Jun 25, 2017 8:13 pm
Thank you Kenneth, that's the intension. You're one of the most highly respected variant experts in our hobby and I really appreciate your positive feedback.
cantina_patron- Bespin Busho
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Re: Variant Collecting & Discussion Thread
by Kenneth_B Wed Jun 28, 2017 8:48 pm
Thanks Steve, You're one of the most modest guys, that I have met within the hobby, all though you have both great (variant) knowledge and experience. The article must have been very time consuming to write, all the respect for your work as well as for you as a person.
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Re: Variant Collecting & Discussion Thread
by cantina_patron Thu Jun 29, 2017 5:46 pm
You're very kind Kenneth!
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Re: Variant Collecting & Discussion Thread
by Calrissian_Charm Wed Nov 01, 2017 12:30 am
Hello, my name is Jonathan T, and I confess; I'm a variant collector. A lowdown hoarder keeping the children of the world from getting their paws on the 4 Luke Bespins I own.
I'm still new to the hobby, and I'm puzzled by some of the negativity I see surrounding variants, arguments about what qualifies, and why anyone would care to own more than one figure. But I can't understand how anyone doesn't care about at least major mold variants. How do you choose between Hans?
Do any variant collectors here find any difficulties dealing with other non-variant collectors?
Btw, my MITW Vader is definitely dark gray rather than solid black. Is it a legit variant or just degradation?
I'm still new to the hobby, and I'm puzzled by some of the negativity I see surrounding variants, arguments about what qualifies, and why anyone would care to own more than one figure. But I can't understand how anyone doesn't care about at least major mold variants. How do you choose between Hans?
Do any variant collectors here find any difficulties dealing with other non-variant collectors?
Btw, my MITW Vader is definitely dark gray rather than solid black. Is it a legit variant or just degradation?
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Re: Variant Collecting & Discussion Thread
by Commander Clint Wed Nov 01, 2017 1:50 am
on board Jonathan.When it comes to variants, to each his own. Everyone is going to collect differently, and that's just fine. They just have to learn to discuss in a civilized manner.
Not sure about your MITW Vader question. Hopefully some of the Vader collectors can help you out.
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Re: Variant Collecting & Discussion Thread
by Calrissian_Charm Wed Nov 01, 2017 2:11 am
Thanks!
I can say for sure my wife doesn't get it...
"Don't you have a Luke?"
"Yes, but not like this one."
"But it's still Luke?"
"Yeah..."
"Hmm... How many do you need?"
*crickets*
(softly) "All of them."
Sent from Topic'it App
I can say for sure my wife doesn't get it...
"Don't you have a Luke?"
"Yes, but not like this one."
"But it's still Luke?"
"Yeah..."
"Hmm... How many do you need?"
*crickets*
(softly) "All of them."
Sent from Topic'it App
Calrissian_Charm- Corellia Chugen
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Re: Variant Collecting & Discussion Thread
by cantina_patron Wed Nov 01, 2017 4:24 pm
to TXI Jonathan, it's always good to see new variant collectors come on board. Feel free to discuss the subject here as all questions / comments will be answered with respect (We don't do drama here!) With regards to your Vader, although it can be difficult to capture, a comparison pic with a 'normally' coloured Vader would help. Personally I suspect the dark grey colouration will be down to the batch of plastic used (possibly not enough pigment was added or the ratio of pigments used was not correct) as I have an example that is not as black as my others and the excess flashing looks grey when held to the light. Also, I don't recall seeing discolouration in figures cast in black plastic. Hopefully others will chime in with their thoughts.
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Re: Variant Collecting & Discussion Thread
by Calrissian_Charm Wed Nov 01, 2017 6:42 pm
Thank you much.
Here are some pics, and I think that I have answered my own question. It appears that the torsos are the same color, so with only the limbs as different, I would believe that to be a discoloration/aging issue. I'm also wondering if there are any loose Princess Leia Organa collectors out there that I can compare some notes with. I've noticed some significant mold differences that I'm trying to pin down. They could be just unintentional production variants, but I've never noticed anything similar on any other figures, so maybe not common, and I'm wondering if they are COO specific.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
Here are some pics, and I think that I have answered my own question. It appears that the torsos are the same color, so with only the limbs as different, I would believe that to be a discoloration/aging issue. I'm also wondering if there are any loose Princess Leia Organa collectors out there that I can compare some notes with. I've noticed some significant mold differences that I'm trying to pin down. They could be just unintentional production variants, but I've never noticed anything similar on any other figures, so maybe not common, and I'm wondering if they are COO specific.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
Calrissian_Charm- Corellia Chugen
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Re: Variant Collecting & Discussion Thread
by cantina_patron Thu Nov 02, 2017 2:35 pm
You've captured the colour difference really well Jonathan and he's got the correct MITW accessories.
I'll dig my Vaders out, but I suspect it may have left the factory that way. I'd love to hear other opinions though.
I'll dig my Vaders out, but I suspect it may have left the factory that way. I'd love to hear other opinions though.
cantina_patron- Bespin Busho
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Re: Variant Collecting & Discussion Thread
by Calrissian_Charm Thu Nov 02, 2017 8:26 pm
Think so? Be nice to verify
This lovely arrived yesterday. No COO Leia. And I was surprised to discover a fourth cape variation. That is cross-hatch pattern inside (zips), smooth texture/feel outside with vertical line pattern
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
This lovely arrived yesterday. No COO Leia. And I was surprised to discover a fourth cape variation. That is cross-hatch pattern inside (zips), smooth texture/feel outside with vertical line pattern
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
Calrissian_Charm- Corellia Chugen
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Re: Variant Collecting & Discussion Thread
by cantina_patron Thu Nov 02, 2017 10:20 pm
I'll need to double check (most of my figures are in storage), but I believe I have an original no coo Leia with a cape with what looks like faint irregular virticle lines on one side & the cross hatch 'zippy' texture on the other. Are your vertical lines irregular / wavey?
cantina_patron- Bespin Busho
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Re: Variant Collecting & Discussion Thread
by Calrissian_Charm Thu Nov 02, 2017 11:07 pm
Yes, its actually similar to/same as my HK Vader cape, except white.
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Re: Variant Collecting & Discussion Thread
by Nico Fri Nov 03, 2017 4:40 pm
Beautiful Leia Jonathan Welcome to Tantive mate
Welcome to Tantive mate
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Join date : 2015-11-27
Yavin Honor : 10144
Location : Wirral(UK)
Focus : Loose variants (Lando)
Re: Variant Collecting & Discussion Thread
by Calrissian_Charm Fri Nov 03, 2017 6:41 pm
Nico wrote:Beautiful Leia Jonathan
Thanks, Andy! Yeah, she turned up far better than her pics, and I'm super happy
Calrissian_Charm- Corellia Chugen
- Posts : 10
Join date : 2017-10-30
Yavin Honor : 15
Age : 51
Focus : Mash up
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